St. Louis City (part 5 of 11)

Mr. PIPKIN. It is well known to this Convention that I took the ground at our last session that any action which this body could take upon the troubles growing out of the difficulties between the General Government and the government of the State, and now between the General Government and the government which is called the Provisional Government and Governor Jackson, that I opposed the action of this Convention; that I stated briefly, that f^very step we might take would only tend to aggravate our difficulties and complicate the troubles in the State ; and the short period which has elapsed since our adjournment has demonstrated to the whole State that the position I then took was correct. I stated that in my humble opinion, I believed every county in the State would be a field of battle, and that in ev%ry precinct blood would be shed. It seems, sir, that this is about to be verified, and that the election which is to come olT on the first Monday in November, will not be a peaceable election. I entertained these views because I believed that Governor Jackson was determined to resist the action of this Convention in deposing him. He evidently looked upon the action of the military authorities in Missouri as driving him wrongfully from his seat; and hence this Convention, in deposing him, only arrayed the Provisional Government against that of Governor Jackson. For these reasons, I believed, and still believe, that it would have been better if the Convention had taken no action whatever, but had left the military authorities of the United States to hold possession and control the affairs of the State. I came here, sir, with the expectation of voting, as I shall vote, in favor of postpon ing this election. I do not think, however, that the time to which it is proposed to postpone it is sufficiently long, or that a fair expression can be had at the end of that time. My opinion is, that so Ion;; as the war lasts between the seceded States and the General Government, just so long will Missouri be in a condition which will not warrant a fair expression. These people, who are called marauders, robbers, and thieves, headed by Gen. Price, if they should be driven out of Missouri, what guarantees have we that they will not return whenever the Federal forces are withdrawn. I firmly believe that so long as the war exists between the seceded States and the Federal Government or the Northern States, just so long will Missouri be in a condition to prevent any fair expression of the people from being had.

Now I purpose to say a few things in reference to the propositions which have been introduced by gentlemen on this floor. The only measure which I conceive should be debated or adopted is an ordinance postponing the election, and that then the Convention should adjourn and go home ; and that it should adjourn, not to any fixed period, but sine die. It should not perpetuate its existence year after year. The people of the State elected it for no such purpose, and I believe everything it has done since its first session has tended to evil rather than good. Have we, sir, a Constitution ? and are we working under that ( 'onstitution ? If we have a Constitution, then have we a Legislative body? The Constitution provides that the Legislature shall hold its session every two years, and be composed of a Senate and House of Representatives. Now, sir, if this be so, arc we that body ? And if we are not thit body, then can we enaot laws for the State of Missouri ? I take it, sir, that if we arc not the Legislature of Missouri; then we cannot enact laws; and I beg to say in my humble judgment we ;ire not the Legislature of Missouri. The House of Representatives is composed of one hundred and thirty members, and the Senate of thirty-three, I believe, making altogether one hundred and sixty-three members composing the Legislature and yet we are nothing but a body of fifty men, a bare majority of the body which was elected in February last. And we undertake to do what 1 - to repeal certain laws, and, in lieu of them, to enact certa;n others ; and Gov. Gamble himself tells us in his address, which was read at the opening of the session, that we should adopt such and such laws. If we are not the Legislature of Missouri, then how have we the power to adopt or enact laws ? If we are a Legislative body, empowered to enact laws, then the Governor of the State must approve those laws. Yet the Governor of the State of Missouri, who has endorsed the action of this body as a Legislative body, is a member of this Convention. It is true, he has not participated here in our proceedings; but I understand his name is called and made one of the quorum which now acts. Now, is it right, elected as we were for a specific purpo--e, to take the responsibility of legislating for the people of Missouri, when we have a Legislature for that especial purpose, which is composed of one hundred and sixty -three members. This action of the Convention presents to my mind a state of things which is without its parallel in this country. I understand it to be the duty of a Convention, when fresh from the people, to enact certain organic laws - laws which shall be a basis of action in the shape of a Constitution, and upon that Constitution, and under that Constitution, a Legislature of the State of Missouri is bound to enact the laws, and not a Convention. If we go on here to amend the Constitution, as a body fresh from the people, or if we are (in the language of the eloquent gentleman from Buchanan) the people of the State of Missouri, to all intents and purposes, we can do anything. We shall then present ourselves in the anomalous condition of not only amending the Constitution of the State of Missouri, but of going to work and making laws under that same Constitution. If this is supporting the Constitution of the State of Missouri, I beg leave to enter my solemn protest against it; because I was sworn, as a member of this Convention to support the Constitution of the State of Missouri, and I cannot, by my own consent, swear to violate and trample that Constitution underfoot; and 1 hold that whenever we shall undertake to make laws under the Constitution, when lhat Constitution requires they shall be made by a Legislature, every step we take in that direction is a violation of the Constitution.

I said I would support an ordinance postponing the election. If we had the power to pass an ordinance - in regard to which I differ from a greater portion of this body - we certainly have the power to postpone the election of officers appointed under that ordinance. Though I do not believe the ordinance was right in the first place, yet, as we have been acting under it since the last adjournment, and now that a proposition comes up to postpone the election, I shall vote in favor of postponing. I shall do this for the reason that there is no peace in Missouri, and in one half of the counties of the State there can be no election So far as my own county is concerned, there are no officers there to make out the poll-books, and no people to attend the polls, because they are frightened away ; many of them are in the Southern army. Those who are there are afraid of the Northern troops, and could not be induced to go to the polls, and, as a matter of course, the election would be a failure. But I cannot vote for the proposition which is embodied in the minority report of the Committee - that is, that the provision submitting this election to the people shall be abrogated ; and the reason is this : It is true, that the section which defines the duties of this body, and another section which provides for the submission of the ordinance that might be passed to the people, does not govern the case, for the reason that those who enacted this law did not anticipate such a result, or that it would be necessary to provide for a provisional government. The fifth section of the act which brought us into existence, provides that this Convention shall proceed " to consider the then existing relations between the Government of the United States, the people and governments of the different States, and the government and people of the State of Missouri, and to adopt such measures for vindicating the sovereignty of the State and the protection of its institutions as shall appear to them to be demanded." The majority of this body contend that under the call of this Convention we have the power to depose officers, create offices, abolish the Legislature, and do anything that the people themselves might do if they were here in person. Though that proposition, abstractly, may be correct, yet I hold, sir, that it is not the duty of this body to interfere with any propositions or matters which were not submitted to the people when we called upon them for their suffrages. We might perpetuate our own existence from year to year ; but did the people contemplate, when they elected us, that we should be clothed with any such power as that? I hold, that we should confine ourselves exclusively to those things which we were required to do when elected and organized as a body. Under the latter clause of the fifth section of the act calling us together, I hold, we have no power to depose the State Government. I hold that no such propositions were submitted to the people of my section of country. We were elected with no such object, and though we might have the power, we have no right to exercise it, because we do not know the will of the people upon that subject I will here remark, that it is utterly impossible for me to ascertain the will of my constituents. Why ? Because large numbers of them are soldiers in the Southern army, and there is no mail connecting them with any portion of the State of Missouri; and not a single citizen in that section of the country can be induced to come within the military lines unless forced there by the necessity of protection, and there are some of them - a good many. Then, a very large number of the people of my district are not in a condition to be counselled upon this subject. I do not know the will of my constituents, because I cannot see them. I dare not leave the town in which I live and go the distance of ten miles, lest I be arrested. And yet we are called upon by this body to enact laws and deprive them of the rights of freemen. For these reasons, I shall oppose the minority report. I am in favor of submiting this matter to the people when the people can be heard, and not before ; but to deny them the right of passing upon our action is an insult added to an injury that has already been inflicted upon them.

I do not know that it would be proper for me to enter into the discussion of our Federal relations. I came here, sir, with the purpose of simply giving a silent vote. Indeed I doubt the propriety of my being here at all. I am sure I feel confident in my mind that the people of South-east Missouri condemn the action of this body. I believe we do not reflect their will ; and I believe, whenever an opportunity is offered them, so that they can go to the polls without being in danger of bayonets, that they will vote three to one against the action of this Convention. I believe, then, that so far as my action is concerned, if I vote at all, I must vote as I believe my people desire ; and, believing that they are opposed to the action of this Convention, and were from the first, I must reflect their will now, not having any evidence that they have changed : and the best vote I could give is that the action of this Convention is wrong in itself. I say, sir, I doubt the propriety of my entering into a discussion of our Federal relations. The doctrine of coercion and subjugation - these things were all discussed in the Convention in March last ; but it would not be amiss, I believe, to read the resolutions of different gentlemen upon this floor which were introduced in March last, to show the feeling they entertained then almost unanimously, that an attempt to coerce the Southern States would meet with failure and result in the ultimate destruction of the Government. I have no doubt that the members of this body are sincere in all they do, and that their motives are of the best kind. I believe they are, and that they firmly believe they are doing what is right, and that it is their duty to lend all the aid in their power to the efforts now being made to drive out the marauders and secessionists under Gen. Price. But, Mr. President, my conviction is, that every step taken in that direction has been and will continue to be attended with evil. In the first place, the deposition of Jackson was irritating in itself. The organizing of an army under the first call, aided by the proclamation of Fremont, has tended more, in my judgment, to drive men out of the State than anything else. I believe thousands of citizens have joined the army of Price who would have remained at home, in peace, if it had not been for the action of this Convention in July. I say, these acts - Gov. Gamble's proclamation calling for 32,000 volunteers, and the probability that it would be attended with drafting, together with the proclamation of

FriMiumt, confiscating the slave- property of rebels - all these things, I say, have tended, more than anything else, to drive the people out of the State of Missouri, and make thousands of soldiers for Price's army. Yet these gentlemen, I am bound to say, have done what they believe to be proper and just. Mr. Ho \vell and others introduced, in March last, these resolutions :

Htxu/ri'tl, That we, the people of the State of Missouri, by our delegates in Convention assembled, being ardently attached to the Union of the States of this Confederacy, and desirous of maintaining and transmitting it to succeeding generations according to the letter and spirit of the Constitution, which we regard as the highest effort of statesmanship yet made ; in view of the fact that seven of the States of said Confederacy have, in their sovereign capacity, adopted ordinances declaring their connection with the General Government dissolved, and have further declared to the world a confederated government among themselves ; and several other States are deliberating as to withdrawing from the Union ; and that, in our opinion, any force employed against said States that have declared themselves withdrawn from the Union (or that may so declare,) by the General Government would destroy all hope of reconstructing or preserving the Union, do earnestly remonstrate and protest against any and all coercion, or attempts at coercion, of said States, or any of them, into submission to the General Government, whether it be clothed with the name or pretense of executing the laws of the Union or otherwise, and declare that in such contingency Missouri will not view the same with indifference.

Mr. Dunn offered the following : Resolved l>y the People of the State of Missouri in Convention assembled, That we are in favor of the adjustment of our national troubles, upon the basis of the amendments to the Constitution of the United States proposed by Senator Crittendcn, thereby arresting the progress of revolution, and securing our constitutional rights in the Union, and removing forever from the arena of party politics the dangerous sectional questions that have brought us to the verge of ruin.

Mr. Woolfolk offered the following : Resolved, That the present crisis demands that the rights of the Slave States should he secured to them by amendments to the Constitution, and that this Convention recommends to the Legislature of Missouri that they apply to Congress to call a General Convention of all the States in the manner provided by the Constitution for the purpose of making such amendments thereto as Avill secure the rights of the Slave States, restore peace, and relieve the Southern mind of apprehension for the future.

Mr. Stewart offered the following : Resolved, That in the opinion of this Convention a Convention of the people of the Border States for the purpose of presenting a plan of Compromise to a Convention of the people of all the States, would be the most sure and efficacious method of adjusting in a fraternal spirit the alarming discords which threaten the disruption of the Government. Mr. Linton offered the following : Resolved, That there exists no adequate cause why Missouri should secede from the Union, and that she will do all that she can to restore peace to the same by satisfactory compromises. Mr. Hendricks offered the following resolutions :

1. Resolved, That at the time of the adoption of the Federal Constitution it was the understanding and intention of the people of the United States that they were thereby united together for all the purposes expressed and contemplated in that instrument as one people, inseparable and forever.

2. Resolved, That the provisions of the Federal Constitution were understood and intended by the people of the United States to be the supreme law of the land, and not a mere compact ; and for violations and infractions thereof by the Federal or any State government, disintegration was not contemplated, but remedies as provided in the Constitution to be sought and obtained in the Union.

3. Resolved, That while the right of revolution, for adequate cause, is not denied, yet the Constitution of the United States, and acts of Congress made in pursuance thereof for the admission of new States into the Union as integral parts of the United States, being the supreme law of the land, no Ordinance of Secession adopted by a State government can abrogate them.

4. Resolved, That the Ordinances of Secession adopted by the several States of the Union are unauthorized in law and without adequate cause in fact, and when we are called upon to follow their example it is right and proper for

5. Resolved, That the action of several of our sister States, in adopting Ordinances of Secession, is no justifiable cause for Missouri to secede.

Resolved, That Missouri deplores the sectional strife and alienation existing between the North and the South, and regards the same as inimical to the dearest rights of Missouri and the peace and perpetuity of our Federal Union.

2. Resolved, That Missouri is an integral part of the great West, and declares her fealty and attachment to her own interests and section, and invites her sister States of the West to ignore -the dogmas of New England on the one hand, and the Gulf States on the other; and at once to inaugurate a Western policy, loyal to the Federal Constitution and the Union of the States.

Resolved by the People of Missouri in Conventiori assembled, That secession is a dangerous political heresy, finding no warrant in the constitution or laws which lie at the foundation of our systems of gov -rnment.

Resolved, That Missouri will do nothing to sanction, support or countenance the pretended right of secession, since its approval by the people involves the destruction of all our institutions, whether State or Federal.

Resolved, That the government which our fathers formed, and which for nearly three quarters of a century has failed in nothing to answer the ends for which it was established, is " suited to the habits, and adapted to the wants of the American people, and that every dictate of wisdom req dres us to direct our efforts rather to its preservation than the formation of any substitute for it.

Resolved, That we deplore the action of some of our Southern brethren in adopting ordinances of Secession, and assuming a hostile attitude towards the Federal authorities. In asserting that secession is a remedy for the grievances of which the South complains; in seeking to destroy the Federal Government, which is of itself guiltless of wrong; and in forgetting that in and through the Union are better means and ampler facilities for redressing all grievance than out of 't - they have committed grave errors ; and whilst Missouri will exhaust all efforts in restoring harmony and securing justice, she recognizes no obligation to support them in these proceedings, believing that thereby she would prejudice rather than promote the best interests of all concerned.

Resolved, That it is essential to the existence of government that some authority should be charged with the duty of executing the laws, and that the proper action of the constituted authorities should be supported and obeyed; and although we deprecate any collision between the Federal Government and our disaffected Southern brethren, it is the opinion of this Convention that these duties and obligations, as prescribed by and under our Federal Constitution, cannot be annulled or impaired consistently with the peace, dignity, or existence of the government, State or Federal.

Hesolved, That for the thorough and final removal of all cause of complaint against our brethren of the Northern States, we desire the enforcement of the Constitutional guarantee concerning the rendition of fugitives from service, a renunciation of any purpose to interfere with slavery in the States or in the District of Columbia, or with the inter-state slave trade, and some equitable and complete adjustment of the territorial question based upon an abandonment by the North of any purpose to use the power of the General Government to repress or extinguish slavery, and by the South of any purpose to use the power of the General Government to perpetuate and extend it? and that we confidently rely upon the justice of our Northern brethren to aid by appropriate legislation, or by adequate constitutional amendments, in producing these results, and in securing their enforcement and observance by a cordial compliance with their spirit.

Resolved, That we appeal to our sister States of Kentucky, Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina, Virginia, Maryland, and Delaware, whose interests are so closely identified with our own, to stand firmly with us in the position we assume, asking of our Northern brethren the full recognition of our just claims, and of our Southern brethren a reconsideration of their hasty action - that so may be restored the old relations of peace, prosperity and perfect union.

The object I have in reading these resolutions is not to show the inconsistency of gentlemen at all, for I do not think they have been guilty of any ; but they are read for the purpose of showing that the southern people have just cause of complaint ; but these gentlemen almost all deny that those causes of complaint are sufficient in themselves to warrant the Status in seceding. At the time of our first session here, we all looked upon the difficulty between the Northern and the Southern States as grounded in a just cause of complaint. There are other resolutions which even go further tha'i those I have read ; but I will not take up the time of th;s body in reading them. There are, however, five resolutions, offered by the Committee on Federal Rela'ions, to which I desire to call the attention of the Convention. These resolutions, together with an amendment offered by Mr. Shackelford of Howard, were adopted by the almost unanimous consent of this Convention. The adoption of these resolutions exhibits the fact, that the Convention then entertained the opinion that if a <-oll sion ensued between the General Government and the seceded States, the country would be ruined and all lost. Notwiihstand ng these Southern States had taken the forts and all the proper y of the Government in the seceded States, yet the general belief was expressed by this Convention Hia' it would be bad policy for the General Government to enforce its laws in the speeded States. They thought it would be better to withdraw the forces from all these forts rather than plunge this country into a civil war. And he resolutions all tended to show that the first gun fired would result in civil war and the destruction of the country. This has been ver fied, a d I believe the Administration is respons;b'e for it. I believe if Lincoln h d pursued a more pacific course, and withdrawn his forces from Sumpter, this country would have been at peace. Do you not remombe' with what joy and satisfaction it was heralded all over the Tinted States that such was to be the policy of the Administration ? The Northern papers condemned it ; but for the sake of restoring peace we were willing to sanction this conduct of the Presi dent, and surrender these forts to the Southern States. But the po'icy of the General Government was changed, they undertook to reinforce Sumpter, and the result was an inevitable war ; and we have grown more bloodthirs y er since The proclamation cal'mir for i 11 was issued, and all succeed ing moass showed that the course of the President towards the Southern S ares would result in exceeding great evil. And it is upon us now. How are \ve to meet it ? Gentlemen say we mint dr ve out and extingirsh the Southern of this Government, to destroy onp half of it in order to perpetuate its existence; nor do I believe that if these States are subjugated that they can be held except as subjugated provinces. You might as well undertake to unite fire and gunpowder as to undertake to unite the Southern and the Northern people; for, to all intents and purposes, they are a separate people. They have a greater animosity and hatred to each other, in my humble opinion, than the people of the United States enterta n towards any foreign power. '1 he hatred is most bit'er, and the continuance of this war only aggravates the difficulty ; and I confess it is not for me to say how or when it shall be ended. There was cause of complaint. The North refused to enforce (he Fugitive Slave Law, and all the action of the Northern people tended to show the people of the South that the North was bitter'y opposed to the existence of slavery. The Southern people were well aware that their subjugation would be their ntter destruction, or the destruction of the institution of slavery, which they hold to be one of their most vital institutions. Trry fee' that thev are dependent upon it - that the white man is not able to cultivate the rice and the cotton field- ; and, so feeling, you cannot unite them with the Northern States.

Now, a few words in regard to the new Government or State Administration. I deprecate the conduct of Gov. Jackson as much as anv man; yet his action can be readily accounted for and based upon what many regard as just grounds. It was known that there were treasonable gentlemen who had been indicted, arrested and held to bail. The editor of the Journal, I am told, Mr. Tucker, gave bonds, and Jackson and Price had both been indicted. This may be true. Now, if Gov. Jackson was a traitor to the Government of the United States, or bv any action of his had undertaken to take the State of Missouri out of the Union, what was clearly the bounden duty of the Federal authorities in the premises ? Why, it was not to proc'aim 'o the world what they intended to do, but to indict these persons for their crimes and go to work secret'y. Having indicted Gov. Jackson, instead of sending an army to capture him, the officers of the 'aw should have lain their hands upon him. But I believe it was not the policy to arrest him, but to drive him out of the State, to send an army after him, and announce the departure of that army. What was the iesult? The Government s- nd- an army and he is notified of 'lie fact. He floes from the Capital, and gets such men as he can summon, raises an army, makes battle, and is driven back and out of the State. He goes to the South, collects an army, returns to the State, an'd what do you see ? Instead of being driven out, he has a stronger hold on Missouri to-day than he had then, or when lie had an interview with Lyon and Blair, when those propositions submitted to them by Jackson were rejected. He had no soldiers then, but now he has thousands of the citizens of Missouri, who are headed, and controlled, and managed by a gentleman who was elected President of this Convention at its first session by a large majority, and against whom I voted. There was not in the State a more honorable or high-minded gentleman ihan Sterling Price at that period. He was beloved by the State as a statesman and a civilian ; yet he has been driven from Missouri, and is now branded as a murderer, a robber, and a coward. Do you expect such a policy as has been proposed by this Convention will bring back those people who have flocked to his standard ? Do you believe that measures of a stringent character, tending to deprive people of their property - acts of confiscation - do you believe these will bring them back from their allegiance to Price and Jackson ? On the contrary, if that policy be adopted, it will greatly multiply the enemies of the Government in this Stat-\ Such a policy will increase 'he armies of Price and Jackson. There are thousands who would have been in this State to-day, engaged in the peaceful occupations of life, if it had not been for the wretched policy pursued by the General Government towards the people of the State of Missouri. Why the necessity of sending armed troops all through ihe State of Missouri"? I do not deny the right of the General Government to do so - it has a perfect right to send its troops, if necessary, through the State, to protect its citizens ; but what I did condemn, and have and will condemn, and speak against as long as I *m allowed to do it, is that indiscriminate arrest ami punishment of citizens against whm there can be nothing brought. They are the persons who have the right to complain. So far as my personal experience is concerned, I know Lvge numbers of men who have I een incarcerated for weeks in my own town, and who, when brought before the court martial, have been discharged for want of witnesses against them. This policy I hold to be the mo?t vvretc' cd e\er adopt- d towards any people, and it has driven thousands of peop'e of the State of Missouri to reso t to arms. You cannot take a man and punish him, whip him, abuse him, and then tell him you will reason with him; you must reason first before you whip him. And that brings me to state what I understand to be the fact, that many of the Federal soldiers often whip the naked backs of some of the citizens of the Sta'e; and I have heard that the veneiable Dr. Rifle, who wa> once honored with a seat in Congress - now near the grave - was tied to a stake one night, and kept there in a condition of helplessness. Now, these things do not justify the armies on the other side in marauding upon Union men. Doubtless, much crime is committed on the other side. I have evidence of this fact. My honorable colleague, Mr. Leeper, has suffered; while he has sufft-red, I have been protected. There, I am looked upon as a man who sympathizes with the South, and yet my colleague is a Union man, and has been driven from his home. These things are to be deprecated ; but who inaugurated these things ? The system was inaugurated long before Price had an army in Missouri. It was inaugurated at Camp Jackson on the 10th of May, and shortly after in my own town, and also in other port;ons of the State. These things have brought about a sad state of affairs, and compelled the people of the State to ta'»e up arms to defend themselves; and we come here seemingly with the object not to pacify them but to pass laws disfranchising them, depriving them of the right to vote - laws to confiscate their property - and, after all this, ask them to come forward and support the Government.

Mr. HAI.L. of Buchanan. One section of the ordinance contains a provision continuing the present officers in office. Of course. I have a delicacy about the matter, and I therefore hope I shall be excused from voting.

Mr. HOWELL. I hope I shall have the indulgence of the House in explaining the vote I propose to give on the ordinance now before the Convention. I shall vote on this question in reference to the present status and condition of the country irrespective of its merits under other circumstances. We are in a state of war now, and that war has, by means well kno\vn> been introduced into this State, and, as a ne-

-ary result, wo are convulsed from centre to circumference. I believe that President Lincoln and the anti-shivery party at the North arc primarily responsible for the war that has

D introduced into the bosom of the State of Missouri; at the same time I believe it would be improper for me to give Ihe reasons in support of that view. I censure Gov. Jackson, and did censure him, for his war proclamation at the time ;\nd under the circumstances it was issued ; but I believe that, whatever may be the present opinion of my constituents upon that question - and T do not pretend to be thoroughly advised upon that subject - when Missouri is humbled in the dust, her every interest prostrated, her slave interest ruined - for, from the best information I can obtain, more than one-third of the slaves in the Sfate of Missouri when the war commenced have disappeared since its unfortunate inauguration - when the people of the State, and my constituents, see and feel the effects of this thing as they will see and feel it, that they will regard this question as I do. But, notwithstanding my views as to the causes by which this war has been brought upon the country and introduced into this State, \ve are called upon here, as practical legislators and statesmen, to act for the present emergency and the best interests of the State. At the time we assembled at Jefferson City, this Convention passed an ordinance vacating the office oT Chief Executive and some of the State departments, and then proceeded to fill them with new incumbents. At that time things had assumed such a shape in Missouri that I was not able to vote for that action, believing that it would only complicate our difficulties, and that it was pregnant of no good. But this measure was carried by this Convention. I believed, for the reasons I have assigned, that our action would not be prolific of good ; that if the Governor's chair was declared vacant, it would result in evil ; and further, that we were not elected for any such purpose. I believed then there was no need of filling that chair until the destiny of this State was settled. Mr. President, this is not a war between the people of the State of Missouri and one class or another; but a war between the Government of the United States and its adherents in the State of Missouri, and the Southern Confederacy ami the adherents of the Southern Confederacy on the other side ; and the destiny of Missouri must be determined, not by the po\ver of one party or the other in the State of Missouri, but by the power of the

General Government on the one side, and the power of the Southern Confederacy on the other side. That being the case, and Missouri having but a small voice in this matter, her business being broken up and her courts suspended, I believed there was very little for a Governor of the State to do, and therefore I thought it was not necessary, if that office was vacated, to ignore the franchises of the people and fill that office. I believed there was no possible necessity for a Governor in the State of Missouri at that time, and I am still of that opinion. The State is stagnant - standing still - and all that is going on here is being operated by the General Government and the Southern Confederacy ; and if this battle is to be fought out between the United States and the Southern Confederacy, I prefer it shall be fought under the organization of the respective parties. I am opposed to guerrilla warfare, which has been introduced into Missouri; I am opposed to the Home Guard system, and to anything that will induce and encourage sectional war in the State. I believe it is better that all those in this State who desire to fight for the Government of the United States should flock to the standard of the General Government and organize themselves under that standard ; and that all who desire to fight for the Southern Confederacy should array themselves under that standard, and that there should be only two organizations. How is it to-day ? We have troops here in Missouri acting under the General Government, others under the authority of the Southern Confederacy, others under the authority of Governor Gamble, and others under the authority of Gov. Jackson. All these things complicate our difficulties, and are calculated to stir up an intestine war, arraying neighbor against neighbor, and making this war more horrible in all its details. Another reason why I believe Missouri should not organize troops for this war, is this : her destiny is not that which Gov. Jackson declared it - an independent power - but her destiny in the future is either with the North or the South ; and when her position shall be fixed with one or the other, the burdens and expenses of this war will be just upon us, in proportion to our population, as upon other States ; so that an organization in the State would only complicate our difficulties and make the war more horrible within her borders. The people of the State will have to foot the bills and pay the expense of a State army when the war is over ; and of course, whether her position be with the United States or with the Southern Confederacy, she will have to pay her proportion of the expenses of either Government. If her position is maintained, where it is now, as one of the States of the United States, we cannot pay our proportion of the expenses and taxes of this war. For these reasons, Mr. President, and others I might mention, I shall vote in favor of the postponement of this election for the present, but not for the purpose of taking this election from the people. Mr. President, I hope to see the country come out of this war purified, and I hope to see the elective franchise maintained in all its integrity and purity. I voted before in favor of having the election held in November, and if the election could be held then in all its integrity and purity I would vote for it, but can it be done 1 What is the condition of th > State of Missouri now ? We are under martial law. Can freemen vote under martial law ? - under the menaces of bayonets and bullets, and under the surveillance of Federal and Confederate officers in different sections of the State ? I believe in my section of country, in the central portion of the State, there would be nothing to prevent an unbiassed election. We have neither State Guards there, nor have we, to any extent, Federal troops there; but that is not the case in the city we are now sitting in, or in the South-west or South-east; and until the State can be freed - until her position with the one power or the other can be ascertained - and that position must * e ascertained by bullets and bayonets - until her position is ascertained and an election can be held free and unbiassed by military coercion or menace, I think it better for our institutions and the integrity of the elective franchise, that this election shall be postponed t > that fortunate period, whenever it shall come. Now, I think it would be better not to postpone this election to any particular day. The status of Missouri will be settled, I hope, at no remote period, and when that period arrives the proper authorities of the State can take the steps to bring about an election ; and when that election takes place, tree from Federal bayonets, and the people have had their position assigned them, and the destiny of Missouri shall be cast at the ballot-box, all loyal and good citizens will submit to the verdict, as I will myself Unt-.l that period conies, I think it better that this election should not be held. Suppose the election should bo held in November, and this ordinance voted down,

Jackson would then be voted back into the Gubernatorial chair. In that case, would the Federal Government vacate the field'? Will they say that our action has been unconstitutional? On the contrary, suppose the ordinance is sustained, and Governor Gamble or some other gentleman is elected Governor of the State of Missouri, Jackson and his confederate allies shall march back into Missouri and repulse the Federal forces, would they, in that case, pay any attention to the election, or to the Executive chosen to perform the duties of Governor? Under these circumstances, Mr. President, I think an election in November would amount to nothing, and I think it unnecessary, and that it would be an insult to the people to hold that election ; and I shall therefore vote aye.

The vote was on the passage of the ordinance as follows : Ayes - 49. Noes - 1. Mr. Sayre voting in the negative, and Mr. Hall of Buchanan being excused.

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE said he had been requested by the Presidents of the several railroads to offer a petition for the repeal of an act passed by the last Legislature which had been found impracticable in its operation, and he did so without being able at this time to declare what his views were touching general legislation by this Convention. He was not fully satisfied that it was proper for the Convention to enter into general legislation at all. The petition was for the repeal of the pro rata bill, and, at the speaker's request, was referred.

Mr. TINDALL, from the Committee on Militia, reported a bill providing for the organization and government of the State. Laid on the table and made the special order for tomorrow.

"The respective courry court clerks in this State shall take and subscribe the oath piovided in this oidinan* e, and file the SOUTH' in the office of the Secretary of State wiMiin the forty days aforesaid; and if any county court clerk shall toil to file saiH oath, duly subsc-ibcd and sworn to as afotesaid, his office is hereby declared vacant, and said vacancy shall be filled by the authority under the existing laws, and in such case the other county officers of such county sha'l comply with the requirements of this ordinance within twenty days after said vacancy shall be filled under the provision of this ordinance."

"6. That the offices of the Judges of the Supreme Court, Judges of the Circuit Courts, Probate Judges, Sheriffs and Clerks of the several Courts of record of this State, and Recorders of Deeds, Register of Lands, Auditor of Public Accounts, State Treasurer, and Attorney General, be and the sam*- are hereby declared vacant: and the Governor of the State is hereby authorized to fill the vacancies so created in the offices of Judges of the Supreme Cour', Judges of the Circuit and Probate Courts, Register of Lands, Auditor of Public Accounts, State Treasurer, and Attorney General, by appointment of suitable persons to such office".

"7. The Judges of the Supreme Court thus appointed shall have power to appoint a clerk for said court, and the Judges of the Circuit Courts shall have power to appoint clerks for their respect; ve courts, and recorders of deeds and sheriffs of the counties within their respective circuits.

"8. The officers to be appointed by the provisions of this ordinance shall hold their respective offices until the expiration of the period for which the present incumbents of said offices luve been elected, and until their successors are elected and qualified.

"9. The present incumbents of all'other civil offices in the Sta'e, except the Governor, Lieutenant Governor, and Secretary of State, shall, within sixty days from the passage of this ordinance, take and subscribe over an affidavit to support the Constitution of the Uni'ed States and of this State, that they will not tnke up arms against the Government of the United States nor the Provisional Government of th s State, nor give aid or comfort to the enemies of either ; ;ind that they will maintai i and support the Piovisional Government established by the State Convention of Missouri. Ai,d the offii-.--; of all persons failing to file said oath, as herein provided, are hereby declared vacant; and upon tin* certificate of the cleiks of the Circuit Courts of the respective counties where such offices may exi^t, to the effect that .such persons have failed to file such an affidavit, the

Mr. WRIGHT I had supposed that a measure of this sort would not have been run through with so much swiftness. I take it for granted it is a settled matter, and I do not suppose that any thing 1 may say will be heeded by ihis Convention; but I feel it my duty to protest against adding new horrors to those which already rest upon our unhappy State. Continue as you have begun, and you will create complications from which men of the greatest foresight will never be able to extricate this State. It was said that Kentucky passed through two fires - distracted land tries and a distract"d judiciary - and for thirty years the prosperity of that noble State was impeded by civil disasters arising from the want of a judiciary. Do you want to involve this State in greater difficulties? Will you continue to disregard the constitution and the popular vote? If so, it can not be disrespectful to sav, that in nil probability, if the action of this Convention shall continue in the line of its present policy, the period may not be distant when it will be destroyed and dispersed like the Rump Parliament: of England. If you want to add the horrors of civil s'rife to what you have already done, just go on, and no mm in the State will be secure in the title to his homestead. If I were to forget my c^un'ry, and were to look to any mensu-e designed to advance the interests of my profession, I could not forge any thing better calculated to bring a rich harvest to the bar thun the bill which \ounowh;ive under consideration. Are you anxious to have a distracted judiciary in this land after the experience of Kentucky in regard to her old court and new court ; or is it because you fear, that it' you leave it to the' present Judges, they will mar and destroy your action ? Do you not t;ike counsel from you- fears?

Mr. STEWART. I say as ;m individual. I am prep .red to take the responsibility which the gentleman se m< anxious to dodge I tell you as a constitutional lawyer, that the people of he State of Mis-outi are here congn gated to regulate and contiol the awful calain.iv now upon them. We had the power to depose a Governor and an infernal Legislature, ;md - ow we are called upon to use the most available means to -eave our families from those con- temptible demagogues who have brought these troubles upon us. Although I entertain the most kindly feelings to the Judges of our courts, yet I think inasmuch as we have not only undertaken a military revolution, but a political revolution, the best policy is to put out of office those men who have the power to injure us. I am in favor of making a clean sweep - of chopping the thing right off at the roots - of getting a pair of tweezers and pulling every hair out by the roots, and making a special speech over it. In this way I think we might remove every vestige of secessionism fiom Missouri. Inasmuch as we have begun the work, let us go on with it like men. Sympathizers with traitors may shed their crockadile tears, but they will not move me. I have, perhaps, been guilty of human frailties, but I never was guilty of an attempt to tear down that flag around which cluster all our hopes. If others could say the same, the work which we propose would never have been demanded. I say, then, inasmuch as we have begun the work, let us carry it out.

Mr. HOWELL. I shall vote against this amendment for the same reason the gentleman from Buchanan will vote for it. If I understood the gentleman aright, he avowed himself, shortly after we met, a guerrilla chief.

Mr. HOWELL. He was in favor, sir, of introducing - as he avowed in his resolution, which he offered the other day - the guerrilla system of warfare, under the forms of law, in Missouri. I am ready, in this awful crisis, to assist this Convention in bringing about any good that it has power to effect, and I am willing to join in any thing that will have a tendency to restore peace, quiet and harmony in the State. But if I were to rack my brain to produce a measure which would introduce effectually the guerrilla system of warfare, it would be to adopt the amendment which has been offered by the gentleman from St. Louis, (Mr. Broadhead,) and advocated by the guerrilla chief from Buchanan, (Mr. Stewart.) What is the proposition contained in this amendment ? It is to decapitate the Supreme Judges, the Circuit Judges, the county court justices, and various other officers, not because these officers are useless and unnecessary - not because these officers are guilty of any overt act, - but because we fear them, for the reason that they have the power to do us harm. The people of the State elected these officers, and they have confidence in them and in their qualifications j and I apprehend, sir, they will maintain that confidence. Is there any crime in this, against these officers? None. They are not guilty of any thing, except perhaps of holding an opinion not in coincidence with the action of this Convention. This amendment will apply to Union Judges as well as to Judges with Southern proclivities. But this lever will not be brought to bear upon those who are known to be Union men. They will be recognized. But wherever the sentiment of the people isoboxious to the sentiment of the Convention, there men will be appointed to fill the offices of the people, and receive their money raised from the people by taxation. Are we gone so low, sir, as to tolerate such a thing in this Sfate? I apprehend not. I believe I know the sentiment of the people of Missouri; I believe I know the people of my district, and I believe they are disposed to conform their action to the laws of the country and to the genius of our institutions ; but I believe they are not prepared to have a monarchy foisted upon them and to succumb to it : and while I would not advise any thing of the kind, yet it wrould be impossible to restrain the people in their madness growing out of an outrage of this kind. We have heard of an attempt to remove from all parts of the State these guerrilla parties, instituted by the Federal Government and the Jackson dynasty, and my voice will still be raised for that laudable purpose, and my vote shall always he cast to remove from the people all causes that may be calculated to induce outbreaks. Now, I am willing to lop off all useless offices that we do not stand in need of ; but if we vacate certain offices, I am not willing that they shall be filled by the Governor, but by the people. What have the people done to stultify themselves? What have the people done to show that they are incapable of filling their offices? Sir, I say we had better pause in our career ; we had better withhold the hand of devastation. We should scatter as few irritating causes among the people as possible. I am the more surprised at the proposition coming from the quarter it does. I suppose it meets the concurrence of the committee of which the mover was a member. I hope, however, the amendment will be voted down.

Mr. MCFERRAN. I am sorry to find the gentleman is disposed to argue this matter wholly upon assumption. The gentleman began by assuming that the matter was already cut and dried, and would pass of course ; overlooking entirely the fact, that the committee which re- ported the measure consisted of five members, and that this amendment is offered by but one, the other four concurring in the report as offered by the committee. I regret that he has indulged in such a course of argument. To assume that a matter is already determined is a poor sort of argument. I do not purpose, sir, to argue the matter. It is before the Convention, and they, no doubt, fully understand the subject ; and, for my part, I am perfectly willing to let the Convention vote upon it, and hope a vote will be taken without further discussion. I therefore move the previous question.

Mr. BROADHEAD. I think all we do will amount to nothing unless we adopt this proposition. I am opposed to any half-way work, and I was in favor of this proposition last spring. I am opposed to binding the traitors of the country by test oaths. I know as a matter of fact that nine-tenths of the officers of the State Legislature were traitors, and I am therefore in favor of wiping them out. If we have not got the nerve to do it, then we have not got the power to do any thing. This cry of stirring up an animosity among the people cannot deter me from doing what I consider right. These men who cry so, and who are so perfectly horrified, are the very men who have been permitted to break the peace of the country, instigated and led on by the very officers we propose to turn out - men who have no sympathy for the great cause in which we are engaged. If we can not do that, then we can not do any thing ; unless we cut the evil up at the roots, it is useless to do any thing. Without undertaking to argue the question, I will merely ask that a memorial which I have here, signed by the members of the United States Grand Jury, be read. It is the voice of the Union men whom I have heard speak in all parts of the State.

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I find myself somewhat embarrassed by the fact that I happen to be honored with two offices. In addition to being a member of this body, I am also one of the judicial officers in the county in which I live. I trust, sir, even if I do hold an office which is stricken at by this ordinance, that I may give my views upon the matter without incurring the suspicion that I have any personal interest in the premises. So far as I am concerned myself, I certainly. have none whatever. I have not even thought the honors of the Judiciary so weighty, or the emoluments so great, as to cause me to desire to retain those honors or emoluments. But I am constrained by my judgment, in regard to what I deem best calculated to meet the demands of the present crisis, to say that I do not think the action proposed by this amendment necessary - I do not think it necessary or wise. I think the present need of the State requires that certain State officers should swear to support the constitution of the United States ; that they should be required to be loyal, and that when it is ascertained that they are not loyal, then their official life should cease. I think the provisions of the ordinance reported by the committee peculiarly fortunate in reaching directly at the matter, and I am therefore in favor of it.

Mr. STEWART. I am in favor of ousting every officer who is not loyal. My friend from Monroe (Mr. Ho well) thinks it would be hard to discriminate between those who are loyal and disloyal. For myself, I rather prefer to see the application tried.

NOES - Messrs. Allen, Birch, Bogy, Breckinridge, Bridge, Douglass, Eitzen, Gravelly, Hall of Buchanan, Hall of Randolph, Hendricks, Hitchcock, Holmes, Howell, Irwin, Jackson, Jamison, Linton, Long, Marvin, Mc- Cormack, McDowell, McFerran, Noell, Orr, Phillips, Pipkin, Pomeroy, Rowland, Smith of Linn, Smith of St. L., Stewart, Tindall, Welch, Woolfolk, Wright, Vanbuskirk, Zimmerman, and Mr. President - 40.

I wish to state some of the reasons influencing my action upon this amendment, and the proposition to which this is an amendment. You are fixing a test oath for the faithful discharge of the duties of an officer, which is not a test, and which experience shows has not been a test. Every one of these officers have taken the oath, and some of them - it has been said, many of them - have violated the oath; and now, for the purpose of making them discharge their duties, you are going to require them to swear over again. If they have already violated the oath, then we have no reason to suppose that they will not do it again. You are presenting as a test, that which every day's experience shows is no to.-t; ;.nd if every officer chooses to take that oath over again which he has already violated, he can do so and be unfaithful still ; he will only add to the guilt of his perjury. I desire we shall act in regard to tho<e shown to be unfaithful, in a summary manner. I think it is our duty to authorize the Governor to remove such officers as he finds it necessary to remove, and put others in their places. He will have a better opportunity of ascertaining who are fit, and who are unfit, than we. I shall therefore vote against these tea's, because I consider they will, accomplish nothing.

Mr. WRIGHT. I shall vote aye upon this proposition, upon the principle that it is right to amend and make a measure as good as possible. I will help perfect the' measure, with the expectation of voting against the main proposition.

Mr. PIPKIN of Ironton, at this point, asked leatve of absence. He had just heard that new disturbances had occurred in his neighborhood, and he felt it his duty to go to his family. He had learned that Big River bridge, on the Iron Mountain railroad, had been burred.

Resolved, That the certificates of pay of the members and officers of this Convention, signed by the President and attested by the Secretary of said Convention, shall be received by the various collectors of this State in payment of all taxes and dues, due or to become due to the State, and the Auditor and Treasurer of State shall pass upon and allow the amount so paid by said collectors on said certificates as so much money paid by said collectors.

Resolved, That nothing in the foregoing resolution shall be construed to prevent said certificates from being presented directly to the Auditor and Treasurer of State for allowance and payment, but said certificates shall be audited and paid by said officers, upon presentation, out of any money in the treasury not otherwise appropriated.

Resolved, Said certificates shall be assignable by the indorsement of the name of the member or officer to whom the same shall be due and payable, and said certificate, so indorsed, shall entitle the holder to all the rights which the original owner or holder might have under these resolutions, and the same shall be allowed and paid to said holder in all respects as if he were the party to whom the same were originally due.

Mr. MCFERRAN accepted Mr. Long's amendment excepting the School Commissioner of St. Louis county from the provisions of the bill which was offered yesterday as an amendment to Mr. McFerran's amendment.

Mr. BROADHEAD. I object. I am willing and shall be in favor of striking out the whole section. The office of School Commissioner of the different counties is a small affair, anyhow, so far as the pay is concerned. The office is important, but the pay does not exceed $200 in each county. I am opposed to making any distinction between St. Louis county and any other county. It does not look well on the

Mr. LONG. There should be a distinction made and special legislation for St. Louis Co. The School Commissioner's duties for this county are not the same as in other counties. He is the custodian of moneys for the suppoit of the Schools, and has many important duties to perform which do not devolve upon other county commissioners.

Mr. HITCHCOCK. I would like to ask the gentleman from St. Louis (Mr. Long) whether the provisions in the third section of the bill are such that they can not be complied with in this coun'y, or, in other word*, will the clerk of the Board of County Commissioners of this county be able to perform the duties of School Commissioner? I understand that it will be impossible for him to do so.

Mr. LONG. I will state for the information of the Convention, that we have no County Court in 'his county, but a Board of County Commissioners. The clerk of this Board has one or two assistants employed all the time, and at different times during the year he is compelled to employ five or six. The School Commissioner of this county is occupied the whole time in the discharge of his duties, and if the clerk cf thk; Board of County Commissions is required to perform the same duties, it will be necessary for him to employ another assistant.

Mr. ALLEN. I think, if St. Louis requires special legislation, we should be willing to grant it. I am willing to vote these Commissioners all out elsewhere, and especially in iny county, as the Commissioner there is a secessionist

Mr. PIPKIN. The County School Commissioners are paid according to the services rendered ; and if nothing is done, of course they get nothing. They are paid out of the county revenue, and the county is not bound to pay any thing except the County Commissioner himself makes out a statement and swears to it. The County Commissioner of my county is said to be in the Southern army; consequen'ly he renders no service, and the County Court will not and can not audit his demands. There is no occasion for abolishing the office. It might operate upon him if he should return ; hut it would operate upon others who are still loyal to the Union and workiigfor the Schools. I can not, therefoie, see the necessity of abolishing the offi e.

Mr. MCFERRAN. I know the gentleman has stated the fact in regrard to the payment of the salary by the counties, but I know further that the School Commissioners of every county are sure to do something in order to draw their salaries for the full amount. The adoption of the amendment will save the State some £20,- 000. The County Clerks can perform the duties just as well, except in St. LOUH county, which is more extensive, and ought to be excepted.

" SEC 8. Any person whatever who may take and subscribe the oath provided by this ordinance, and file the same in the office of the Secretary of State, or any County Clerk's office in this State, shall be exempt from arrest or punishment for offenses previously committed by taking up arms against the Provisional Government of this State, or giving aid and comfort to its enemies in the present civil war, subject to the penalties of perjury, as provided in this ordinance. And it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State, and respective County Clerks, to make out and deliver to persons filing such oath, a certificate of the fact under their respective seals of office, which certificate shall be prima facie evidence, in all courts and to all persons, that the person named therein has complied with and claims the benefit of this ordinance. And the Governor of this State hereby directed to furnish a copy of this ordinance to the President of the United States immediately, and request him, in the name of the People of Missouri, by proclamation, to exempt all persons taking said oath under this ordinance from all penalties they may have ncurred by taking up arms against the United States, or giving aid or comfort to its enemies, n the present civil war."

Mr. STEWART. I would like to know if the gentleman who offered this amen.lrne'it was willing to allow these nurselings of hell - those men with the mark of Cain upon them - to comeback? Is he willing to take the snake again to his bosom, by receiving in good Mowship men who had violated every principle of honor and duty?

Mr. PIPKIN. I understand there are disturbances in iny section of the State, and lam anxious to get away ; I am tired of listening to a speech which has been delivered at least twenty times on this floor.

Strike out "within forty days aforesaid" (after the passage of the ordinance,) and insert u within ten days after receiving notice of the passage of this ordinance, being within forty days after the passage thereof.''

The original amendment requires all persons who seek the benefit of the ordinance to file an oath within forty days after receiving notice of the passage of the act, but the amendment provides that the person shall file the oath within ten days after receiving notice, and within forty days after the passage of the act.

Mr. GANTT offered the following as an amendment to Mr. Broadhead's amendment : " Or made a burden on the county treasury by State legislation"; so that the amendment, as amended, would read :

Mr. GANTT'S amendment was rejected, and Mr. BROADHEAD'S agreed to ; but it was afterwards ascertained there was not a quorum voting in either case. Ihe vote was then retaken on both the amendments.

Mr. BIRCH. I have made an estimate, and find that by the operation of Mr. Gantt's amendment upwards of $7,000 will be saved in county revenue alone.

Mr. BIRCH then moved to add, after the word " salaries," in the 5th section, "and fees" ; so that the section shall read, that the "salaries and fees of all civil officers shall be reduced twenty per cent." He saw no reason why feed officers should be exempted any more than salaried officers.

Mr. HALL of Buchanan said that if they continued this system of offering amendments they would never get through ; and moved the previous question.

Mr. McFERRAN then offered the following amendment: Strike out the words "forty days," wherever they occur in the 6th section, and insert "sixty days." He did this for the reason that there were many portions of the State which might not be made acquainted with our action within forty days.

Mr. WELCH then offered a substitute for the first four sections. The substitute provides for the suspension of the salaries of the following officers : Board of Public Works, Superintendent of Common Schools, State Geologist, Assistant State Geologist, officers of the State Lunatic Asylum, officers of the Deaf and Dumb Asylum, Judges of the Circuit Courts, Circuit Attorneys (except St. Louis), Bank Commissisner, and Assistant Bank Commissioner.

Mr. WELCH. I desire, in offering this substitute, to bring before the Convention the merits of a system radically different from that proposed by the Committee on Ways and Means. I desire the Convention to consider these two systems, and judge of the comparative propriety of one or the other. The plan suggested by the committee provides for the total abolition of certain offices in this State.

The plan I have suggested in this substitute is that these offices shall remain as the people have ordained them ; but that, in the present crisis, while any of these offices are idle, and not in the performance of their legitimate duties, their salaries shall be temporarily suspended. There are some serious objections to the report of the committee, unless it is proposed to amend the constitution ; this, however, has not been proposed. The constitution, if I mistake not, provides that in some of the offices ot this State, the salaries shall not be inci eased or diminished during the term of office. The Conveution proposes to violate that section without amending it. They propose to decrease the salary of the Governor without making the necessary change in the constitution. Then, in regard to the Board of Public Works, if the Convention abolish that office, it may result in serious evil to the people. I have had some little experience in regard to the organization of this Board of Public Works, and in the Legislature of the State with reference to that Board. Several years ago, when the Railroads in this State desired the credit of the State to assist them in operating these highways, the Legislature, after affording them relief, saw fit, while they had the power - and very properly, as I think - to establish a Board of Public Works, with power to take charge of the State's interest in the various roads. Now, when the office is abolished, the interest of the State in these roads will be entirely unguarded. It is an important office, and i think it unwise on the part of the Convention to abolish it. It is true, that just at the present time the members of the Board are doing nothing but drawing their salaries ; but it would be better to provide for a temporary suspension of their salaiies. When peace is restored, that Board should be in existence. While these railroad charters were subject to legislation, the Legislature incorporated the Board of Public Works into them. Abolish this Board now, and you can not hereafter, when it may become necessary, amend those charters. When these roads asked the assistance of the State, they consented to the establishment of this Board ; but if you abolish it now, these roads will never consent to the reestablishment of the Board. The State has loaned to these roads not less than $24,000,000, and the Board of Public Woks is required to watch over this immense amount of the wealth of the people of the State, and yet gentlemen propose to abolish the office entirely. I think, sir, it would be far wiser to temporarily suspend the salaries, and let the office remain as it is. The Board is now part and parcel of the great internal improvement system of the State. It was created for the best interests of the State, and the people, through their several Legislatures, have refused to repeal the bill establishing the Board ; hence, the creation of that Board has received the approbation of the people.

So far as the office of School Commissioner is concerned, that office can be re-established, but the Board of Public Works never can be. I know there are those anxious to have the Board of Public Works permanently discontinued, and to have their surveillance over the road discontinued ; but the people at large have shown themselves decidedly opposed to any such scheme, and I trust it will not meet with the sanction of this Convention.

Mr. GANTT. I think it would be found, whenever the time comes and the matter is examined into, that not one of these road companies have a charter which can interfere with any lawful legislation of the State. Let them pay the interest on the public debt, and we will very willingly forego the surveillance of which the gentleman speaks. They have forfeited their charters over and over again, and are open to any legislation to which the Legislature may go into. I do not think there will be any difficulty on the subject at all. I therefore move to lay the amendment on the table.

Mr. STEWART reviewed the internal improvement question and recited some interesting facts in regard to its introduction, relative to the part he took in the matter j and how, upon one occasion, he was opposed in his efforts by a Mr. Peri, a member of the State Senate.

Mr. SMITH of Linn. It appears there are members of this Convention who conceive that certain other members can not vote without being lectured four or five times a day - must be reminded four or five times a day that the people are here in a body. I have become tired of this song, and unless it is stopped I will resign and go to my camp.

Mr. HALL. I would prefer to accommodate the gentleman, but here are gentlemen all around me who wish to make speeches, and if I withdraw for one I shall be compelled to withdraw for all.

Mr. PHILLIPS. I wish to remark that I have discovered that the gentleman from Johnson (Mr. Welch) is correct in regard to the constitutional difficulty in the way of the adoption of this report of the committee. The constitution provides that the salary of the Governor shall neither be increased nor diminished. If the previous question is sustained, it will prevent any amendment being offered to except the office of Governor.

Mr. TURNER. I observe there is a disposition to cut off all debate and amendments. This species of tactics meets my disapprobation. I seo there are gentlemen here, who, as soon as they can get in their own amendments, are ready to spring the previous question, and cut off others.

Mr. HALL of Buchanan (in explanation of his vote). At our last meeting, the propriety of our interfering with these offices was fully considered, and the opinion was entertained that we ought to confine our action to matters which had reference to the condition of affairs between Missouri and the United States. I am still of that opinion now, and hence, although

Mr. ORR. Having been selected upon the Committeee of Civil Offices, I had desired to address the Convention in regard to the important measure which we are about to act upon ; but, for some cause or other, this Convention has thought proper to choke me off. I believe there are not more than five men in this Convention who have proclivities towards secession, and I believe every one of these gentlemen have said all they desire to say, and every thing that can be said, to aid the rebels. It has been said that I have fled from my constituents and am a refugee, and I had desired to meet the argument of the gentleman who made this assertion ; but, being deprived of the privilege of a reply, I can only vote upon this resolution, and let gentlemen judge as they think proper.

Mr. PHILLIPS. I would ask the unanimous consent of the Convention for the privilege of offering an amendment to this fifth section. This section is in direct conflict with the 13th section of the 4th article of the Constitution.

Mr. TURNER. I would be glad tovote for this section of the ordinance, but my mind is not clear in regard to the constitutional provisions, and I vote no.

Mr. MCFERRAN. It seems that the genius of some members has discovered a great many objections to this section of the ordinance. One gentleman thinks it unconstitutional, and another that it is general legislation, and therefore not within the purview of our authority. Now, I regard it as nothing more nor less than an attempt at retrenchment - a saving to the State, in her great trial, of her means, that they may be husbanded for other purposes. I do

Mr. ORR. In explanation of my vote, I wish to say that I have no constitutional scruples in regard to this matter. I think we occupy the same position that the Constitutional Convention did thirty minutes after it passed the provision we propose to repeal. There is a little scruple which touches my pocket, however, as I shall lose a hundred dollars a year after it is passed ; but with all that, I vote aye.

Mr. STEWART. I think, as I have said heretofore, although it seems to be a little disagreeable to some gentlemen, that we are the people of Missouri, and that we have the constitution of the State in our own fingers.

Mr. HITCHCOCK (in explanation of his vote). So far as this measure is concerned, I have no objection ; I fear, however, some of the practical results. I should have preferred the measure spoken of yesterday j but rather than have nothing, I vote aye.

Mr. BRECKINRIDGE. I love mercy, and I think gentlemen who make ordinances should cultivate it; and I also love justice. When Governor Gamble issued his proclamation sometime ago, he had the endorsement of the authorities at Washington that all persons taken up in arms against the Republic who should return, should be forgiven. I hope a great many availed themselves of that offer. But I am not willing now to promise, absolutely, mercy to a class of offenders which is very large, and some of whom deserve condign punishment. I hope it will be consistent with the Government to pardon in certain cases ; but I am not willing, in all cases, to promise, absolutely, complete pardon.

Mr. BUSH. The adoption of this section would exempt from all punishment those who have brought all the misfortunes upon this State, and I do not think it would be right to do this ; I can not, therefore, vote for the proposition. The former amnesty which was granted induced very few, if any, to come hack as loyal citizens, although it caused a great many to perjure themselves.

here as a United States Court or Grand Jury, and consequently we have no right to propose to exonerate men from the highest crime in the land. The man who plots the overthrow of my Government is too great a villain to meet with any sympathy from me, and I never will vote for an ordinance to exonerate a man from a crime of this character. I am willing to meet things fairly and squarely. I have been trying to meet traitors, and I am willing to meet them here or wherever I can find them. I vote no.

Mr. McCrfRMACK. I am informed that a number of bills have been found against parties in rebellion against the United States by the U. States Grand Jury; but if we pass this measure it seems to me we put a stop to all legal proceedings. I am therefore opposed to the adoption of this section.

Mr. MCFERRAN. I desire to explain the vote I shall give. The amnesty offered by Governor Gamble, which has been referred to, was so general in its terms, that there was no way of ascertaining who accepted it, or who did not accept it. A man might claim the amnesty or reject it, just as he saw proper. The proposition now before the Convention makes this matter specific, and requires certain conditions on the part of those who accept the amnesty. I think it is proper to offer those men who have, by false representations and generous and impulsive natures, been led into this rebellion, an opportunity to return to their homes. I think it is due by this Convention to say that much to them. So far as indictments pending for treason are concerned, there are none j and so far as the ordinance affects the General Government, it merely requests the President of the United States to give it effect. Besides all this, we do not assume that the President of the United States will invade the Judiciary of the country; and no intelligent man, involved in this rebellion, will suppose that his accepting this amnesty would relieve him from indictment if one were pending. I take the position that the President can not conlrol the Judiciary.

Mr. MCFERRAN. Yes, sir. The gentleman seems to think there would be a difficulty about the matter - that the proclamation of the President exonerating persons in rebellion, would be interfering with the Judiciary of the country. We all know that the President has power to pardon a man; and we presume, further, that if the President, by proclamation, releases any man who stands charged with a crime against the United States, the Judiciary of the Federal Government would not afterwards pardon that man.

Mr. BIRCH (in explanation of vote). We are an extra-constitutional body, called here because the constitution did not provide for certain things. We have enacted these four or five previous sections, but we had no authority to do it under the constitution j and so with all the rest of our work. We have not performed a single act, since we assembled, compatible with the constitution. We are here outside of the constitution, for weal or for woe. I intend to vote for all these measures. It cannot be pretended that they will be of no benefit to the State, and especially the 5th section, which will save the State some $50,000.

Mr. GANTT. I call the attention of the Convention to the little progress W8 are making, and I move that we adjourn to 7 o'clock this evening.

Mr. OUR obtained the floor, and spoke about five minutes before the reporter was in attendance. At the point where the reporter began, he said :

Mr. ORR. The gentleman from St. Louis (Mr. Wright) said this Convention had dwindled down to a bare quorum, and he wondered Avhat had become of the rest of the members. I said then, and I say now, that many of them did not dare to come here through fear of being arrested for treason. The gentleman went further, however, and said that many of us were refugees. He says he said it with all due respect - that is, the respect due such men. I suppose, I am one of the individuals whom he took the liberty to style a refugee. I take the liberty of saying that I am not a refugee, and that the gentleman is mistaken. It is true I fled for protection, but not from my constituents. Notwithstanding many of my constituents are secessionists, not one of them in the five counties I represent would have done me an injury ; nor do I believe there is a leading secessionist in those five counties who would not intercede for my release if I was arrested. I did flee for protection, and from whom ? From the very man whom I once helped to elevate to that chair! He came there and said, those who had taken an active part against the Confederates, and those who had given aid and comfort to the Provisional Government, would be treated as enemies. I had done a little of both. If I did not take a strong and active part in favor of this country, and against secession, it was because I could not do it. I did help to establish the Provisional Government, and therefore I conceived I was to be treated as an enemy. There were gentlemen there from abroad, from Africa, from Missouri, and from the Indian nations, and those were the kind of men I fled from.

As to whether the gentleman from St. Louis represents his constituents or not, that is a matter about which I know nothing, and care less. I have represented mine, and am willing to meet them now, if they will only dispense with the services of those gentlemen from foreign states who drove me from my home.

been incarcerated, and how much property has been destroyed and run over by the Federal authorities. But have you heard any thing on the other side ? Yes ; I remember to have heard one gentleman - the gentleman from Iron ton (Mr. Pipkin) - say, that his colleague had been badly treated; and that is all the wrong I have heard intimated on the sunny side of the question. It strikes me that a true Union man, who deplores the failings of the Federal Government, ought at least to say something of the outrages on the other side. I was told, that, the day after the battle of Springfield, Price and McCulloch. issued proclamations declaring that citizens should be protected both in persons and property ; but the same day their soldiers drove their wagons into my fields, devoured my property, and drove me from my home. I was not run off by my constituents, but by other people - by foreigners - and every dollar of property I had has been destroyed by them. They entered my house, tore up my books and papers, scattered the feathers in the beds, and broke the furniture. The same outrages were committed upon other Union citizens, and the course of the rebel troops, everywhere, has been marked by kindred outrages ; yet they are not considered of sufficient importance, in the minds of gome of the gentlemen who have spoken concerning the crimes committed by the Federal Government, to be worthy of so much as a single brief allusion. I admit both sides have done wrong, and there never was an army that did not do wrong. Our men have been going through the country, and jerking up men and swearing them ; but you may swear these rebels until their heads are white, and you can not make Union men of them.

The gentleman from St. Louis went on to say that we could not enlist the Irish, because we wanted to crush out American liberty. He also said that we could not raise men under the State law, because we should first have to satisfy them that we were freemen ourselves - a thing which we could not do. He said, further, that he was not a free man; but, judging from his late course, I am inclined to think he is mistaken in this respect. I recollect back to the time when we first met here, how the gentleman with his eloquence depicted the absurdities of an old secession rag that hung out in the street; but he has got a strong squint in that direction himself now, and we can not expect any thing particularly complimentary from him. He says that this military law will be a failure - that we can not drum up a regiment even though we hold out the inducements of honor and gold ; while, on the other hand, "in some sections of the country you see will men get upon their own horses, and, without any prospect of reward, leave their homes to join the Southern army." Why did the gentleman use the word, their own horses 1 I suppose it was to show that they did not steal their horses. Does not the gentleman know that they stole their horses ? If he does not, then he has committed a blunder ; and he says the commission of a blunder is worse than a crime. I know that in my immediate community they have stolen some 0,000 horses. " They take their guns and get on their own horses." Why ? " All this for gold." I will tell you what the gentleman reminded me of, in the speech he made. It was difficult to tell which side he was on. Sometimes he would strike on one side and then on the other ; and he reminded me of a man who was out hunting, once upon a time, and he saw something in the bushes that looked like a deer and also like a calf; thereupon he came to the conclusion that he could shoot so as to kill it if it was a deer, and miss it if it was a calf. "They take their guns and get upon their own horses" !

Mr. FOSTER. If the speaker will allow me one question. When Col. Green stole seventynine horses out of Adair county, did they not become their own horses then ?

Mr. ORR. Certainly, as soon as they mounted them. These men with their horses went over the river and robbed the Lunatic Asylum of every thing, and took all the property they wanted everywhere, and spread ruin and desolation in their track. What sort of men are they? "Oh," says the gentleman, "they don't ever expect to have a cent paid them for their services !" I live where they have been thicker and bolder and more of them than you have seen. They do expect pay, and they have taken forty years of my labor towards their payment.

Mr. WRIGHT. I never call a man to order, ana I am very happy that this warfare has been made upon me. I do not care how many of these gentlemen fall upon me. All I ask is, that when they get through you will allow me to reply with a " blizard." What I said was this : I was not confining myself to the gentleman's district, but I was confining myself to information received from North Missouri. I Avas retailing what I was informed transpired in North Missouri. I was undertaking to give nothing of my own knowledge, but I Mras informed that in North Missouri such a state of things had transpired. The gentleman, with his usual felicity, has transposed and blundered over every thing I said.

Mr. ORR. So far as "Wizards" are concerned, he is the gentleman who commenced this warfare. He commenced on me by holding me up to ridicule. So far as his "Wizards" are concerned, I fear them as little as any man he ever saw.

Mr. WRIGHT. I did not allude to the gentleman at all. I did not mention his name. I stated the fact, that although I had been taunted with not representing my constituents, it could at least be said that I was not a refugee from them ; and yet the gentleman says I was talking to him.

Mr. ORR. Be kind enough to tell me who you were talking to, and I will go on with my "Wizards." If he told us what somebody else gaid, he did not make the crime any less. He has been informed that the men of North Missouri are lovers of liberty - all. Now, I happened to be in this city once, six or seven years ago, when the river was frozen over, and a large number of gentlemen - such lovers of liberty as the gentleman has been speaking of - went out of the city to sell whisky, and get rid of paying taxes. But before they had sold a great deal, a desperate set of highflyers went over and broke up their shanties. Then these lovers of liberty came back, and said they would get protection from the police. But they did'nt get it; and these lovers of liberty in North Missouri will hardly get it, and they certainly don't deserve it.

The gentleman says we can't get men to enlist anyhow ; and it strikes me a great many have enlisted, and are now helping to drive out the invaders. I know 10,000 men could have been raised in Southwest Missouri, under the call of Gov. Gamble, if it had been made a few days before this fight at Springfield. Since that time we have not had a chance to go there. There are thousands of men wanting arms all through the State, and as soon as they get them they will be ready to defend their homes from these Southern invaders.

The gentleman from St. Louis alludes to Lincoln. I am not an advocate in behalf of Lincoln. I did as much as I could to defeat his election. But I am a Lincoln man to-day, so far as he sustains the laws of the country. In the difficulty that arose when South Carolina first attempted to leave the Union, Clay and Webster both rallied to the support of Jackson, and stood by him until the rebellion was crushed out ; but that did not make them Democrats, and nobody considered them in that light.